308 Valve Help

[davidh]

51 308 that we are currently going to grind the valves in. . . . i have a 48-52 shop manual but it is not very clear in what or how to adjust the valves. on top of the lifters there appears to be a small spring (not the valve spring) and ther does not appear to be any where to make adjustments. what do i have here ? should i take a couple pix's of the spring area or is it possible that these are hydraulic type lifters ? i guess a guy is never too old to learn. . . . . it seems that removing the valve springs is also somewhat of a problem. i have a spring compressor that may work but im not sure yet, still working on taking out the valve arrangment.
thanks in advance.
davidh
(the old guy)

[mars55]

In the Shop Manual (1948-1952), the procedure for adjusting the valves is given on page 2-7. Check pages 3-10 Figure 8, 3-28 Figure 32 and 3-38 Figure 43. Does this look like what you have?

[Fred Connors]

You have hydraulic lifters in your 308 which were standard in the 1956 AMC Hudson 308 engine. To obtain the correct information and service proceedure for these lifters you will need to obtain a 1956 engine manual or a Motors manual that covers this model year. Hydraulics were only standard as an OE item in 1956 but could be added to any (Big Six) from 1948 thru 1956.

[Ken U-Tx]

Yeah those are the hydraulic lifters, there's no adjustment....However, to be able to get the valve springs out, I found it necessary to remove the upper plungers and their body ( the part with the little spring) out of the mushroom tappets. You do this one at a time, while the valve spring compressor is holding the valve spring up as far as it can go, and carefully pull the plunger and plunger body out of the mushroom tappet, angling it out of the valve chamber on side of block. You must keep them in order so they go back in the lifter they came out of. Clean them good in Carb cleaner and blow dry. wipe the inner plunger lightly with engine oil, and press all the way down in the plunger body, and put them in tins or margarine tubs (keeping them in the order they came out) and cover with oil and let soak overnight or a couple days, place them with the little oil hole facing up, you should see tiny air bubbles come out, as the air comes out oil will fill the plunger body. They must be pushed down (fully collapsed) to get the air out, and then soaked to prime them some. When you put them back in, it's again one at a time, with valve spring compressed, then when in, you lower the valve spring compressor and remove the compressor. Now, after they are all in, you will see that there is some lash in there, since the lifters are fully collapsed (unless you ground the valve seats REAL deep, or used longer than stock valves, that is.) Next step is to disconnect the ignition wire from coil, and/or with sparkplugs out, crank the engine over on starter a few seconds at a time. Have a helper watch the lifters, to ensure that they start to pump up as the oil from oil pump gets to them. When they have pumped up to take up the lash, then you can put the spark plugs in, reconnect ignition wire to coil, and attempt to start. In my case, after the valve job, and the lifters primed and pumped up, the engine started instantly and ran smoothly and quietly and has been doing so for the last 5 years. Good Luck!

[Ken U-Tx]

PS: I also found it necessary to turn the crank to rotate the cam lobes to the full down position for each valve in order to get the clearance needed to pull the plunger/ plunger bodies out. I did this 5 years ago....it's 2:16Am here, I was in the Emergency clinic around 9 pm Thursday for what seemed like an allergic reaction of some kind, my lower eyelids swelled up like water balloons, and my eyes were blurring and burning. heart rate and breathing were affected too. They gave me a steroid shot and the symptoms faded. This was after walking two miles for Mexican food, and walking back home, and boom, those symptoms appeared. I'm feeling much better now, but tired. Hope the instructions I gave help. I should be in bed. Keep me posted on you progress. Night now.

[davidh]

i thought thatmight be the case. i looked in the book at the pages and pix's referenced and that was not looking like what i had. (the manual is a poor re-print and the pix quality on half of them is un-readable) thanks for the re-assurance.
davidh (the old guy

[davidh]

i alwas was suspect of mexican food trying to kill ya. at least it seemed like it the next morning. hope your better this morning.
another interesting situation came up after trying to get the final valve up and out. it was stuck. the valve guide came out with the valve. frozen on the valve shaft. CRAP ! besides probably not being able to save the guide or the valve, whatta ya all think it may have done to the block ? would the proper proceedure be to have a new guide installed or knurl a used on (on the outside) or are these a peice of cast steel ? i got a bit discouraged and just put it in the plastic bag with rust remover on it and quit for the night.
open for suggestions for sure.
davidh

[Ken U-Tx]

Was the guide moving up and down in bore of the block while running? Or did you drive it up and out from bottom of block, with camshaft out? May have to hone the bore out, and use an oversized guide for that particular bore. The original guides are cast iron, not steel. They are actually quite brittle. Try using a small brake hone to clean up the bore some, and then use a small telescoping guage to measure the ID of bore. It should be about at least .002" smaller than the replacement guide for a cold press fit. I fitted my 308 with silicone bronze guides. They will not rust to valve stems like the cast iron ones, but they require lots more reaming to size after being pressed into the block, due to the bronze being a "springier" metal. I'm sure the silicone bronze is easier to knurl than the cast iron guides. The cast iron used in the original guides seems too brittle to be really malleable for the knurling tool. I think my silicone bronze guides were made up on lathe by Randy Maas, so he can probably make one oversized to fit the worn bore in your block, but you need to get an accurate measurement of the bore ID.
Speaking of my little episode last night, I'm feeling ok now, but there are a couple of water blister things just below my lower eyelids, so now I'm suspecting that maybe the restaurant used Habanero peppers in their salsa, pico de gallo, and it got on my fingers, and I may have inadverently rubbed my lower eyelids while walking home....any way it hurt, my eyes were blurring, and when I went to look in the mirror, I freaked, I looked like some puffed , bloodshot eyed creature from a horror/ sci-fi film. Kenneth

[davidh]

kenneth, the 308 has not run since about 1967, not even turned over 'cept when we freed it up after draggin it home. this morning first thing, i pushed the valve right out thru the guide after an overnight soak in sylicroil (sp). we use that in our repair business on a regular basis.. anyway, the valve was only varnish stuck in the guide. the guide looks new, the valves look like new except for one that actually looks like a factory defect. i will attempt to replace the guide in the block using a custom rod with a shoulder on it for pushing it in. one new valve shsould do it, and the seats look great too after using a power wire brush on them. where does a guy find one of them old lapping tools with a suction cup on the bottom that you run like a hand operated drill. . . . a couple turns in one direction and a partial turn in reverse with lapping compound. dang, this old gal might even start. i do need to buy a headgaket however. . . $85 sounds about right as far as i can find. then we can determine if the car is worth all the other work it needs. . . like interior, complete strip down and etch primer, then whatever the lad needs or wants to do to it. he plans to use it this winter to go to college. actually im only supervising the operation, he's nearly 18 and doing it all himself, out in the dirt, next to the garage. . . quite a boy and a helll of a hudnut for sure. . .

['47HUD]

man, that would be a shame to drive that in the northern Minnesota winter, I thought you had an old Mercedes for him to drive in wintertime ! ? E-mail me sometime again !

'47HUD