Help a grade 10 class with a buick roadmaster 1956

[cision]

ok i am in a grade 10 auto class and we have a 1956 buick roadmaster in the garage. unfortunatly our teacher is a retard with no auto experiance at all. so he believes the car wont start because of the fuel pump so we got a new electrical fuel pump and we have mounted it.(actually the one we have now is the second one which he believes we had installed upside down cuz hes stupid) now the problem is our teacher doesnt have any clue on how to wire it since the origonal was a mecanical one. so anyway what i am asking is for someone to help me make my work in the class by telling me how to wire this fuel pump. any information will help it is a 3 pronged fuel pump

[Oldcar_Mechanic]

Read the instructions that came with it. If there wern't any, take it back to the parts store and get one with instructions.

How does a school hire a guy for shop without any experience???????

Ron

[cision]

it came with instruc5tions but it would be for a newer car so we dont know where to connect the wires for the older car.

and you have no idea how dumb this guy is he has no respect from the kids so everyone does what they want. also the $%!# he says its ridiculous its so amazing if you meet him you will want to punch him in the face

[Jon B]

Two questions:

1), I assume this is an electric pump. Why not just get a nice rebuilt original type mechanical pump for the car and install it?

2). If you decide to install the electric pump and it came with a wiring diagram, can't you mentally adapt it to the old car? First, I assume your '56 Buick is 12 volts with a negative ground, which is how present-day cars are equipped. But you'd better check, because the mid-fifties is when American car manufacturers were switching from 6 to 12 volts. So make sure it's a 12, or the new pump won't work. Now, as to the three prongs, where does the diagram say they should go? I assume that one goes to the ignition switch for the positive connection (since you don't want the pump running until you turn on the ignition).

Generally, the negative connection (ground) happened through the body of the pump (grounding to the sheet metal or frame of the car) but maybe this one has a separate wire to ground it. So, look at the diagram and see if the pump is supposed to wire to a ground connection. You can simply take that wire and screw it to something in the car with a good solid "ground". The third wire? That's the mystery. Where does the diagram show THAT going?

This is a good challenge for your class, because you are going to find that everything isn't ''spelled out'' in life, and you are always going to be faced with things like this -- where you have to sort of adapt one thing to another situation.

Good luck. Just be sure you have someone standing by, ready to disconnect the car battery, in case you start a fire!

[cision]

i apologize it was only a 2 pronged fuel pump sorry for the wrong information.


1 we tryed getting a mecanical fuel pump but the one we got didnt fit on \(even after he said we had it on upside down (wich it wasnt)) .

it is a 12 volt with a negative ground. we have got the negative connection connected to the sheetmetal just like they said. now we have to run the positive connection from the terminal to a 10A fuse then to a safety pressure switch then the diagram says that 2 wires should come out of that switch and go to the starter.

there are a few problems with this. the first is the fuse.We found where all the fuses are located but there arent that many of them. ther are 2 lables pointing to the same 10A fuse 1 label saying backup 10A and the other saying brake 10A both pointing to the same fuse. then there is a clock one for 2 A.There is one for the dome saying 20A and there is one for the blower wich is 20A. so i was wondering where should i connect these wires for the fuse or should i make a new fuse outlet and if so where should i mount it.

next is the safety pressure switch. is there one already in the car which we could wire through or will we have to buy one and install it.

last is the starter. do we have to wire it from the actuall ignition like where you put the key in or would we have to wire it down to the actual starter.


you might be wondering why i am asking so many "obvious questions" or what ever.Its because our teacher (ted logan) has no will to teach us so i am sitting here in auto while he is yelling at someone for putting paint on a nozzle handle asking all of the smarter people in the world for help to make my grade 10 experiance not a waste of time. so i would like to take this chance to thank everyone who has read over or contributed in helping us
(and when i say us i mean me and 2 others) fix this buick

[Oldcar_Mechanic]

When I was a student in school and learning auto mechanics, we learned to rebuild everything. Like Jon B says, it would be a great learning experience, just to bad that your school is not on the same page.

I would think that you would just take the pump and match it up at the parts store to get the correct one.

I have never seen instruction that want you to use a pressure switch, but I believe that you can purchase an oil presure switch that you can use for that purpose. That way if you lose oil pressure due an engine not running (like what would happen in an accident) the fuel will stop from being pumped and possibly all over the place.

As far as the fuse goes, you can find a 12 volt wire that has the power to it applied only when the ignition switch is on, put a 10 amp fuse in-line and then make the run.

You fail to say exactly why you are running two wires to the starter and does it explain where these wires are to be attached? My guess is, is that one is for power when the engine is cranking and the other is hot when the ignition is returned to the run position.

Hope this helps
Ron

[cision]

this is what it says (the intire instruction) for the wiring of thisw fuel pump.

useing a minimum of #14 guage wire, follow the wiring diagram (see figure A&B) and connect the pump to the vehicle's electrical system. if the vehicle has a pre-exsisting oil pressure safety switch wich operates wither a warning light or guage, it is recomended that a T-adapter beinstalled into the engine block in both O.E and the A-68301 pressure saftey switch be used. install a 10A fuse between the oil pressure safety switch and pump(See figure A) .

this is a CRT-P4594 fuel pump if it amkes any difference.

[MI2600]

I think I would go with the suggestion that you simply replace the original pump by taking the old one to the parts store.

Why wouldn't the new original style pump fit? If it was because you couldn't get the pump lever to seat, you probably were fighting the fuel pump rod.

[cision]

we couldnt get the exact same part for a mecanical fuel pump so we got the one that is mostrecomended to replace it but it didnt fit corredctly because one of the valves on the top was hitting the engine block. so then we got the electrical one

[Oldcar_Mechanic]

I'm not sure what you mean by "the valve on the top is hitting the engine block". Are you saying that the something on the pump is hitting the block not allowing you to slide it into the opening?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't think that Buick had the rod to actuate the pump like Chevrolet did. I have a 1955 and a 1958 Shop manual and they say that the pump is actuated by an eccentric on the front of the cam. They show the 55 had a combination fuel/vacuum pump and the 58 had a single or just fuel. I don't have a 56 manual.

Ron

[cision]

when we were trying to put the fuel pump in the hole we had to slide the lever into the hole first wich pumped it. but when we got it to a certain point we couldnt get it in anyfurther because of one the ports (like where the fuel came in) was hitting against the engine stopping it from going in any farther.

the origonal pump had the rod going into the engine wich pumped the fuel pump.

[Jon B]

Time out!

Before you fool around anymore with the electric fuel pump, I have two questions:

1). Does this Buick's wiper motor work off vacuum?

2). Is this electric pump a combination vacuum / fuel pump?

If you do have a vacuum wiper system, you would be well advised to purchase the original type mechanical combination vacuum and fuel pump, which not only pumped the fuel but assisted the wipers (vacuum wipers depend upon vacuum from the manifold so when the car slows down....so do your wipers).

Of course you could (after figuring out how to install this electric pump) then try to come up with an electric conversion for the wipers. But all of this is a LOT of work to go through simply because your local parts guy sold you the wrong fuel pump!

Although I'm not into Buicks I do have a friend who is deeply into them, and I will contact him to find out the story on getting an original type fuel pump for your car at a reasonable price. There are plenty of companies out there that are rebuilding and reproducing parts for older cars. Your local parts place is not oriented towards anything that isn't a late-model Toyota.

I'll try to get back with some concrete information. You seem to pretty dedicated to this project....so you deserve some assistance!

[cision]

apparently we couldnt get a rebuilt origonal fuel pump from the parts store near us(Bell high school ottawa).

the wipers do run on a vacume. and the pump that we have (the electrical one) wont be able to run the wipers. but acording to our teacher thats not as importantt as getting the car started. so when we do get the car started we will have to find some other way of getting the cars wi[pers to work.

the parts guy didnt sell us the wrong part its just the parts numberr that most closly resembles the origonal pump was the pump that didnt fit. so we have to make do with the electrical one no matter how much workj it is.

if u could contact your friend it would be greatly appreciated. what i would most liuke to know is does the car have an exsisting oil pressuire safety switch and where should i wire this 10A fuse.

and aboutr me being dedicated it really only me and 4 others who really care abolut it andf we all thnk you all for your help.


ps. if you were wonderiung y thereare so many spelling mistakes in trhis post its because im typing with one hand because i crushed my other one under a radial arm saw while me and some other kid were replacing it.

[Jon B]

One of the reputable rebuilders of antique car fuel pumps is Arthur Gould, http://arthurgouldrebuilders.com/ . I'd be willing to bet he has one for a '56 Buick in stock. For the reasons I stated, your shop teacher should seriously consider going this route. You would want the dual-action type fuel pump (fuel + vacuum).

I checked with my "Buick" friend and, yes, the '56 did still use vacuum wipers, so if you don't use a mechanical dual-action pump you may not have usable windshield wipers in the rain.

If you do use the electric pump, and if the old pump (which you're replacing) is of the dual-action type, at least re-install it and connect the wipers to the vacuum portion. Even if the fuel portion isn't working, the vacuum portion may be.

Now, if you go to the electric pump, be aware that the '56 Buick does NOT have an "oil pressure safety switch". (My Buick friend scratched his head on that one!) The instructions are probably referring to something you'd find on a late-model Toyota. Generally, electric pumps have just two terminals (or one, if the body of the pump acts as the negative ground connection). The pos. terminal is wired to the ignition switch so that when it's "on", so is the pump. If you need to wire a 10 amp fuse in there somewhere, go to the parts store and simply buy an in-line fuseholder and use that. Don't attempt to go through the fuse block on the car.

Anyway, that's the information I get from talking with my friend.