Roof Chop and Spray Painting???

[Bjornjr]

Howdy!
I have a '52 Pacemaker and am after some advice on 2 things.

Firstly, has anyone got any advice for me for chopping the roof on my Hudson? Any manuals, sites or people on here that have done it?

Secondly, i want to bring the car back to bare metal and paint it again myself. I have never done this before and am after any advice, manuals etc... on what the best ways of doing this are.

Thanks for your time..
Bjorn

[wkitchens]

Since you're asking for advice, I'll throw my 2 cents worth in. If you've never chopped a top, and don't have extensive bodywork experience, I wouldn't attempt it unless you have an experienced person around to help guide you. A botched chop job would de-value your car more than a wrecked fender. The fender would be easier to repair.
The paintjob would be less like brain surgery. If you have the right equipment, plenty of patience, and a "dust-free" enviroment to spray, it's not that hard. Aircraft stripper melts several coats of paint down to the metal in a couple of hours. The vapors are extremely harmful, so good ventilation, and a good respirator are highly recommended. After you've stripped the car, do any body repairs, then apply a good "self-etching" primer. I then like to apply a light coat of 3 different colors of "filler" primer. Now, start "block sanding". As you sand, the high/low spots will become apparent through the different colors of primer. Unless you had a perfectly smooth body to start with, your car will be colorful, to say the least. When you think it's all smooth, apply 3 more coats of primer, different colors, and block sand again. When you're looking at only one color of primer, apply a good "sealer" primer, then you're ready to paint. I like to spray urethane, some like acrylic, some lacquer. I don't like base coat/ clear coat.Make sure your primer, and paint are compatable. After you've sprayed the car, let the paint "cure", I like to wait 30 days, to give the solvents time to evaporate,then wax and go. But if you want that "eye-popping" paintjob, you'll have to colorsand. This requires the patience of Jobe. Start with 1500 sandpaper, and a garden hose. Lightly sand the paint, with water constantly running over the paint, then go to 2000 sandpaper, then 2500. Be careful not to sand through the paint, especially on edges, and corners. Apply a polishing compound, being careful not to "burn" the paint, then wax. Naturally, I didn't cover everything, but it's a start.

[yorgatron]

Bjorn,are you a member of the H.A.M.B. at www.jalopyjournal.com ? lots of swedish/norse/danish/finnish members who dig Kustom cars there.
as far as your Pacemaker,i feel there's no need to chop a Hudson.if you just lower it it will end up lower than a chopped/lowered '49-51 Mercury.

[tristansdaz]

Bjorn, I agree with Yorgatron, chopping the Hudson makes it really difficult to drive. The windows are pretty short already. I chopped a '48 sedan about 20 years ago and even though the chop job went really well, I didn't like driving it because I couldn't see adequately. It's major,major work as well. I like chopped cars and have a '55 Ford Sedan Delivery that's been chopped 4" and just love driving it...just my 2 cents worth.

[rambos_ride]

Chopping a top is time consuming and expensive - especially if you have a 4 dr - unless you can do most of the work yourself. Then you have to have all new glass made and/or cut. I totally agree with wkitchens "A botched chop job would de-value your car more than a wrecked fender"

In fact if you want to get an idea of what driving a chopped car is like (other than rubbing the top of your head against the roof) mount a sunvisor on your car - it will decrease the visibility out the front window somewhat like chopping the top. You won't be able to see stoplights, birds or other low flying objects (and I'm still putting one on my Hudson!)

Besides that a lowered Stepdown Hudson (8" stock ride height) because of the monobuilt construction is lower and wider than a chopped 50's era merc (or so I have heard!)

Stripping the car is also a big job. Chemical strippers can work well - unless you have multiple layers of paint, bondo and/or surface rust. There is a big also a big issue with the mess and the smell - you need a well ventilated area.

Chemical Dipping is probably the best to strip a body - but it is expensive and hard to find places that do it.

Media Blasting is a good alternative - usually runs 75-95.00 @ hour. Usually you can choose the type of media (sand, plastic, iron oxide, walnut shells, CO2...) to give you an idea of cost...

1 '49 Commodore Fender Inside and out: $35.00
Mid-Size ('67-'69 Camaro, '65-'68 Mustang): For exterior only is approximately $ 450.00 to $ 500.00.
Full-Size (Chevelles, Torinos and GTO's): For exterior only is approximately $ 550.00 to $ 650.00
Full-Size Truck (without inside of box): $650.00 to $700.00
Full-Size Truck (with inside of box): $800.00

As far as prepping the metal and paint - you have to ask yourself first - "What do I want this car to look like?" Painting a standard non-metallic paint job isn't too awful to do. Metallics, Pearls etc.. take a lot more expericence to shoot.

That being said remember this one quote

"A paint job is only as good as what is underneath." meaning the bodywork and prep job will make or break how good it looks and if it lasts. Seriously if you have never done this it is hard work and will take 10x longer than it looks - I would think about taking some weekend or evening classes and teach yourself to do it or just pay someone else to do it!

Normal bodyshop rates are 45-55.00 @ hour + materials - a good restoration or custom shop is going to charge up to 75.00 @ hour + materials

I've been doing bodywork and paint for 25+ years and am currently in the middle of a resto-rod on a 49 Commodore http://www.49c8.com there lots of pics going up showing the differant stages and the condition of the car. If your car looks anything like this one - be prepared it's a lotto work!

Hope this helps - good luck!

[Club Coupe]

I had my car chemical dipped and it was expensive, but not too much more than media blasting. I can say this for sure about the dipping process: it gets to everything and to everywhere and takes it all off, including the lead work on the porkchops. Hudsons being unibodys take bit more prep time. Everything has to come off so that you end up with the unibody frame combination only. The stripper had to drill a small hole in the roof of my car in order to get it to sink in the vat. I agree 110% with Rambo and Wes that the prep work is the most important part of the process. I intend to keep my car forever (I've already owned it since the mid-1960's) and therefore wanted to do it as close to right as I could financially afford. I am very happy with the dipping results. The car now has paint or POR 15 everywhere, even in places that had never had any paint protection and in some places that had not seen the light of day since the car was built in 1951. Taking night school classes on body work is a great idea but don't forget that you will need a good quality spraygun, an air compressor (probably 2 stage), a spray booth plus the materials, body tools and time to do the job yourself. It is really up to the individual whether to attempt it themselves or have a pro do it. I was very lucky that a pro did my car. No telling what it would have looked like if I had tried it myself or how long it would have taken to clean up the overspray!

[rambos_ride]

BJornjr - You didn't really mention other than chopping the top just how far you were thinking to tear the car down? Are you only wanting a chop and then paint the outside or are you going to tear down to the subframe/rear body assembly?

If you go for the full teardown as I am doing with my 49 and you want to have it stripped. With media blasting another thing is that you will either have to pay for them to remove any built up grease and/or undercoating or do it yourself first.

This is because most blasters don't want to contaminate the media and blasting will actully embedd grease particles into the metal.

I have about been scraping the grease and undercoat off myself and so far...

3 hours front sub-frame and cross member
7.5 hours for only 1/2 of the interior (Roof and Floor from firewall through to rear-bumper - of course after the interior was removed)

And still have the other 1/2 of the floor and anywhere underneath the body assembly that grease has built up. Thankfully most Hudsons didn't have tons of undercoating underneath (blessing and a curse!) - unless someone had it done later in it's lifetime

When the car is scraped then I'll do the following

1. Take a cupped wire brush on a 4.5" sander and clean off anything else not already loose.

2. Pressure Wash the entire car inside and out - I'll be doing this from home mostly to get the dirt out of the frame rails and anything else loose.

3. Finish and welding/fabrication needed on main body assembly

3. Take the car on a trailer to a professional steam cleaner and have them do a complete and throurough job using hot water.

4. Take the car on a trailer to the sandblasters

By the time the hulk gets to the blasters it will be pretty darn clean and simple for them to strip.

[BJ__TN]

Before you start chopping the top, Check with the auto safety codes where you live.
Here in Tenn. I am told, there is a minimum windshield height. The Hudson stepdowns are almost at that minimum as they came from the factory. It would be devastating to find out after you chop the top, that the car is illegal and could not be driven.
Ohio has a minimum and maximum bumper height, to discourage low riders etc....
I saw a 65 Buick, once that was so severly chopped that you could not put your arm out the window. You can imagine what it was like to try to see through the windshield. Just something to think about.
Bob Hickson

[Bjornjr]

Thanks to everyone that replied. Your replies have definetly helped me out. Sorry it has taken me a while to reply. I have been busy of late.

In regards to the roof chop, i am not sure what the local limit for the windsheild though there are 2 in the state i live in that have had something a 3-4inch chop. but if they are street legal or not is another question. I am in 2 minds about the chop and i am now leaning more towards no roof chop thanks to everyones input. I would love it to be chopped, but also do think that it looks chopped standard. The amount of people that pull up next to you at the lights and think it is chopped is amazing over here heheh
So unless i am totally convinced, i will not chop it i guess. Saves me a lot of time or money anyhow.

In regards to stripping and painting...
If i am to re-paint it (which ofcourse will definetly happen) i believe it is best to do the best job as possible. that means i will be doing the inside parts etc... From what the info you guys have given me, i stil prefer to do most of it myself. By that i mean i will strip it back to bare metal myself (maybe with some help from people in the know from time to time) and then i will try my hand at fixing and not so straight areas of the car and primer the car. But with the actually paint and finish part, i think it will be best for me to take it to a professional. So that way i have the satisfaction of getting the prep work done myself but will also have a professional finish (i guess depends on how good my prep work is too).

So if it takes me a while to do the whole car (sanding back and primer parts) i have heard of something i can put on or mix with the primer that will protect it from rust etc... until the main paint comes on.. Can anybody help me out with what it is called etc...?

Also, Yorgatron, i dont actually live in Scandinavia, so getting incontact with that kustom crew over there may not help hehe But thanks for that. I am living in Australia. Actually on the Gold Coast in Queensland if there is anyone on here close to my area that may want to meet up and give me a hand or exchange ideas etc...??

I will definetly lower my car..Hydralics are apparently illegal in my country and the state i live in a am told that airbag suspension is also. But i am not 100% on that. Though i will air bag it anyway as its not a everyday driver. If i am not stupid with it i should not draw attention.
We do have a legal limit of how far we can go down also. If i keep it no lower then that the majority of the time it should be fine and i can go ultra low when it is needed heheh I think the lowest we are aloud is about 100mm which is stil pretty low.

Im not to sure if i have replied to everything..So sorry if i have forgotten. Long hard day at work..
If i can work out how to attatch pics i will do so of a pic of my hudson at the moment.

Speak and hear from everyone soon
Thanks Bjorn

[yorgatron]

"Also, Yorgatron, i dont actually live in Scandinavia, so getting incontact with that kustom crew over there may not help hehe But thanks for that. I am living in Australia. Actually on the Gold Coast in Queensland if there is anyone on here close to my area that may want to meet up and give me a hand or exchange ideas etc...??"

we have australian members too,LOTS of them.we have members worldwide.check it out,but don't forget to introduce yourself!

[Bjornjr]

Thats good to hear!
How do i go about introducing myself on here? Where do i do it etc..?
I have never been that great at working out these message boards.

Also, how do i post a picture? I clicked on the 'insert image' button, but it only seems to be able to type in a website address not browse my computer for the image.

Thanks
Bjorn

[46HudsonPU]

Also, how do i post a picture? I clicked on the 'insert image' button, but it only seems to be able to type in a website address not browse my computer for the image.

Thanks
Bjorn
Hi, and welcome aboard!
The forum here does do 'photos', but has a limitation as to the size of the files - very small. When replying & adding photos, look below for the "Manage Attachments" button. It is pretty easy from there...

In addition, just in case you were not aware, there is an area where the HET Club posts their photos -
http://groups.msn.com/HudsonEssexTerraplaneBulletinBoard/shoebox.msnw

You'll need to 'join' the forum there (as well) to post photos - free to everyone, but a 3 MB limitation...

Look forward to seeing some photos -
Regards - Rick C.

[Club Coupe]

Etching primer is what you should use to keep the rust out until paint. You may also want to use POR 15 through a long nozzle sprayer to get into all the cracks and crevices.

[rambos_ride]

Glad to hear you're thinking of dropping the chop - :).

Prepping the body out for paint will be a great experience and give you intimate knowledge of every square inch of your Hudson! One of the first books you should get yourself is the 1948-1954 Hudson Body Service Manual Stock No T-204.

I found mine on Ebay (just be careful to not get a photocopied one) and it is an invaluable source of information on adjustments and R&R (removal and replacment) procedures that I have found so far - anyone else want to chime in on this?

Before you get too far along - do some checking around first and see if you can line up a qualified painter that would be willing to "take over" your project and see it to completion.

I can tell you from my own personal experience that it may be more difficult than you think - basically painters can't or won't guarantee the paint job or the body work from failing if they have not overseen or performed the work themselves. Definitely something to keep in mind...

You said... "So if it takes me a while to do the whole car (sanding back and primer parts) i have heard of something i can put on or mix with the primer that will protect it from rust etc... until the main paint comes on.. Can anybody help me out with what it is called etc...?"

Etch Primer (check PPG/Ditzler) works really well for clean bare metal - if there is residual rust pitting or staining from surface rust (sometimes rust can leave small pits that media blasting /grinding cannot remove - chemical dipping is the only way to get this out)

POR15 looks to be a great product - I know people who have used it and have been pretty happy, but I have never used it or can testify to how it holds up.

http://www.por15.com/

From my reasearch into these types of products I choose to go with Eastwoods Rust Encapsulation product instead of using POR15

http://www.eastwood.com/jump.jsp?itemType=CATEGORY&itemID=372

I choose Eastwood for 2 reasons

1. POR15 has NO UV protection. This means unless you topcoat the POR15 with another type of primer or paint you cannot leave the car or parts outside unprotected from sun and rain because the Sun's UV rays will break down the material and cause failure of the product.

Eastwoods product DOES HAVE UV protection so can be left on as a top coat.

2. POR15 Requires that you buy their "special" thinner to thin PO15 down to spray through a spray gun (you will want to do this)

Eastwoods rust encapsulator product can be reduced up to 20% with laquer thinner easily available at any autobody jobber.

Either product can be brushed or sprayed on. Dry they look very similar.

I can't attest to how the Eastwood Primer will hold up over time - but from a purely technical standpoint I beleive it will.

Good Luck!

[Bjornjr]

Hey there!
Thanks for the help with attatching photos Rick. Ive added one pic to this message. I had to resize it down to make the file size fit. so i dont know how clear it will come out. My Hudson looks pretty good in this picture. Real nice shiny paint etc... But pictures can tel a thousand lies hehehe The paint isnt as good as in the pic though, hence why i am getting a new paint job.

I have joined up on that MSN Hudson group you mentioned. And when i work out how to post pics on there, i will add some more for you guys to see.

I will check out those sites about the etch primer etc... to gather some more knowledge. I dont think i will start the prep work on the car for a little bit of time yet. I must make sure i have worked it all out properly first. And also make sure that there is someone willing to take on the post-prep work.
Ill let you know when i eventually start and will post progress pics and more then likely will be asking more questions to help me along hehe

Also, when i have worked out how to attatch photos on the msn group i will make a post on the message board introducing myself etc... That way i can have a link to some pics of my car etc... (thats what you meant about introducing myself Yorg?)

Thanks
Bjorn

[yorgatron]

Bjorn; go here http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=5 and read the instructions here http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44274 photos are NOT required,but nice to have.

[Heart Of Texas]

Bjorn: Are You aware that the 52 Pacemaker is one of the rarest Hudson stepdowns ever made? The numbers are very low ... with yours being right hand drive it is even rarer. Being the lowest priced example of the Stepdown lines takes nothing away from the value of such a rare car ... while I usually do not speak up about what folks do to cars... I wanted U to know that the car you own is very rare. I also had a 52 Pacemaker years ago ... nothing that looked as good as yours though ... that car went on to be the daily driver of a former president of the Hudson Club... John Clement.

Good Luck with what ever you decide ... the...cows tongue ... is unique among the Stepdown hood ornaments!

Ken

[Bjornjr]

Thanks for that link Yorg. Had a bit of a look at that message board and it seems to be very interesting. I read the instructions also. I wont join up right away though. I will lurk around for a bit and check out how things are done etc... and then i will join. I dont want to jump right in there like some sort of fool hehehe Cheers for that!

Hey Ken...Thanks for that info about the 52 PAcemaker. I was not aware of that at all funny enough. Any chance you can give me some more information on this???

Thanks Bjorn.