I got problems...Help!!

[Jimalberta]

My 54 wasp 232 started giving me problems last summer with a fuel pump problem. I changed fuel pumps and even installed an electric fuel pump but the car runs terrible till it warms up. I took the carb off and put a kit in it but still it will barely start and chugs so bad its hardly running till it warms up. I have to hold the gas pedal down almost to the floor and keep it running until it finally decides it will keep going. I'm almost sure its the carb but I dunno. I'm wondering if the float might be sinking on me or something like that but not sure how to check it. Also I would like to put some hotter plugs in it and I know that champion h11 would work but can't find them. Is there another brand of plug that would work? I need ideas...thanks...Jim

[bill a]

linstall a set of POINTS AND A SET OF cHAMPION h 10 PLUGS, BILL ALBRIGHT

[SuperDave]

Jim,
If you want to check the float, Remove it and old it up to your ear while shaking it (the float, Not your ear ). If you hear "sloshing", It has a leak. DON'T use a propane torch to try and dry it out.. A hair dryer will work..... being careful!! The heat will drive the fuel out and you will probably see the stream and know where the leak is. It can be soldered or epoxied. Or just replace it with a known good one. You can really mess yourself up with high pressure gasoline and an ignition source. Maybe the air up there is too cold to mix with the gas?
Just kidding, Dave W. Fl

[dwardo99]

I don't see why a bad float would only affect cold running. Possibly the carb is gummed up but I wouldn't assume that it is the carb. Like Bill said, basic ignition stuff first. Also, is the manifold heat flap-doodle working properly?

[tombia]

Better listen to Bill Albright

[alexa]

your manifolds are probably so clogged that the hot air cannot circulate under the carb if all else fails take them off and clean inside.

[Jimalberta]

ok I spent the after noon fiddling with it. Here's what I found so far. The heat tube coming up from the exhaust manifold to the climette control was plugged so I cleaned it out and played with the automatic choke and got so it will start better and idle better. I still need to pump the heck out of it tho to get it to start. I adjusted the float level a little but no change. When its idling, if I floor it the car will hesitate and then pop and fart real bad. I can speed it up but only slowly.I took the vacuum line off from the carb to the dist and blew it out but seems ok. Has a new accelerator pump. I don't know if there should be a ball below the spring under the vacuum piston there wasn't one but the carb has been apart many times it seems. I thought the points were ok but maybe not changed them about 200 miles ago. Its frustrating. Maybe time for a new carb.

[mars55]

Is the choke closing all the way? Hudson Big Sixs are a cold blooded group and need lots of choke to start and run right when cold. It sounds like it is running too lean when cold. If the choke is closed, try manually choking it with a rag or your hand over the carb opening (Watch for backfires) and see if that doesn't make it run better.

[Dave53-7C]

Based on your description of the problem, it sounds like a problem with the accelerator pump. It maybe time for a professional rebuild...they work wonders.

[`Hudsonator]

Sounds like something is leaning out. It might not be a bad idea to eliminate the possibility of an intake gasket leak to the block or the base gasket between the intake and carburetor.

Easy little test, get the engine cranked and spray some WD-40 around the intake ports at the block and/or the base gasket of the carburetor. If its leaking, it will suck the WD-40 in and clear up a bit. You'll also be able to see the WD-40 suck into the leak.

Its also not inconcievable that either your idle jet or your main jets have become plugged up, which will do the same thing - lean out your mid range mixture.

I've also had similiar problems from a malfunctioning mechanical advance in the distributor.

The funny thing about problems like this is, it can be a simple problem coming from one thing or a complex problem coming from many little sins. Best advice is to start at the simple tests/cures and work your way up.

I would:
1) excercise Bill's advice, and test the advance movement via a timing light
2) test the gaskets with WD-40
3) take the carb off and clean it out really well. Inspect the metering rods and jets while its apart to be sure they are working properly.
4)make sure your thermo-choke is working properly and adjusted for your own car's conditions. I notice you've already cleaned out the heat tube, but does the adjustment and action work to suit your engine?

I'm thinking somewhere along that list, or little problems adding up within that list - you'll solve your problem.

Mark

[junkcarfann]

I agree that your car displays classic accelerator pump symptoms.

You can check it with the engine not running by doing the following:

First, take off the air cleaner.

Next, hold the choke open, and rapidly push the throttle to full open by moving the linkage. As you do so, look down the throat of the carburetor (a flashlight may be necessary).

If you see a steady strong stream of fuel shooting into the throat of the carb, your accelerator pump is pumping correctly, and the problem is elsewhere.

If you see nothing, or just a dribble, or anything less than a good full squirt, your accelerator pump is not pumping sufficiently.

It does not matter if your accelerator pump is "new". The bore in which the pump plunger (the part that is replaced) travels could be scored or otherwise faulty; the circuit that feeds the pump could be clogged, or the circuit that deliveres fuel from the pump to the throat could be clogged, or the linkage that moves the pump piston could be mis-adjusted or not functioning, (or any combintion of the above).
I would suggest having a pro rebuild your carburetor.

[russmaas]

Must sink the carb in carb cleaner over nite (after it is apart). These passage ways are most likely clogged up. We bead blast the inside of the passages way after soaking them and then rebuild them. Never have a problem after that. There should be a ball and spring with the accelerator pump

[Mike (WA)]

My two bits worth, which may not even be worth that, is that its probably more than just the choke- I don't even have a functioning choke or heat riser on my Twin H (presumably because with headers, there's no place to draw the exhaust to open the choke as it warms up)- My car isn't hard to start, and is a little cold blooded at first, but nothing like what you describe. Its driveable without warm-up, if I feather the gas a little for the first few minutes.

[Dave53-7C]

[QUOTE=Jimalberta;42145] When its idling, if I floor it the car will hesitate and then pop and fart real bad. I can speed it up but only slowly.

Classic symptoms of an engine sucking air with little to no gas = accelerator pump.

[Jimalberta]

well I spent the day doing what Bill A suggested. I changed spark plugs and no improvement, so I put in new points and condensor and voila!!. The car started right up, idled nice and reved up just like it used to. Thanks Bill. Here all along I was convinced it was a carb problem....go figure.

[Uncle Josh]

By the way, if you're lookin down the carb, do it with the flashlight, NOT a lead light. I know a guy who dropped the light, ignited the carb and burnt his garage down around his car.

[walt's garage-53]

Walt here, check your carb, with the motor off, hold choke open and with a flashlight look down into the carb and have someone push pedal to the floor, you should see gas being sprayed. If no gas you need a carb rebuild because you have blocked passages. All lead plugs on the outside must be removed and all passages cleaned out. I do lots of carbs and most have blocked passages and complaints are like you state.

[51hornetA]

Hey you guys read Jim's post above yours where he says the car is running fine now that he changed the plugs and points and condensor.

[Nevada Hudson]

Walt here, check your carb, with the motor off, hold choke open and with a flashlight look down into the carb and have someone push pedal to the floor, you should see gas being sprayed. If no gas you need a carb rebuild because you have blocked passages. All lead plugs on the outside must be removed and all passages cleaned out. I do lots of carbs and most have blocked passages and complaints are like you state.

Welcome Walt! Hope to see you often here !

[464Saloon]

Now that you have changed the points and solved your problem,call Pertronix and get one of their electronic ignition conversions. They have them for both 6 and 12 volt. You'll never have the problem again and you will have a much better/stronger spark. I have done my Hudson, 55 Ford F-100 and 68 Olds 442 and all work and run great.

[Jimalberta]

464 you read my mind. I was just wondering if there was a set up for a six volt dist. How do you get a hold of them?

[51hornetA]

Hey Jim you need the Pertronix Ignitor part number 1362P6 got mine at the performance shop here in Edmonton the guy had to order it in.

[`Hudsonator]

Well, I'm glad the problem was solved! Bill's advice is golden, which is why it was first on my list of things to test.

The Pertronix unit is on my "want" list too.

[Jimalberta]

51 is your set up for a 6 volt or 12 volts or does it matter?

[51hornetA]

Jim my setup is 6 volt and that is the P6 designation which means its for 6 volt positive ground. If you convert to 12 volt you get the part # 1362 without the P6 designation. Runs like a dream on the 6 volt. I have just done the distributer for the 308 I have on the engine stand as well.

I also got the new Pertronix wires and coil. Just make sure to get the correct coil. The correct coil is the PNX 40011 1.5 Ohm coil and the wire kit is PNX 708180.

This is tried and true technology and runs excellent. I would not return to points after this. Be sure to gap your plugs to 32 thou after doing this as you can run a wider gap.

I got everything from my local Mopac dealer they have a store in Calgary phone number 403-277-0101. They will be able to order in. Cost you about 200 bucks for the lot.

[Jimalberta]

ok thanks 51

[SuperDave]

One quick word.. if anyone is thinking of making this mod.. the early step down 6 distributors are different than the late ones. Make sure you have the correct kit. or as I did, used a later distributor in my 49.
Davew

[Clutch guy]

Hi,don't forget to check the wire from the points to the outside of the distributor,seen this many times before.The engine just starts running poorly,if this is bad,it will not accelerate and usually blow the vac advance diaphram.Also it can make the condenser have problems[replace this for sure

[Jimalberta]

what kind of wire should it be replaced with?

[51hornetA]

Jim if you are using the pertronix kit you will be replacing this wire anyway comes with the kit.

[Jimalberta]

51 are you coming down to the Lethbridge swap meet this weekend?

[51hornetA]

To tell you how stupid I am this is the first I have heard of it....wish I had known earlier. Whats the 411 on that?

[Jimalberta]

Its an annual swap meet held in Feb every year. Its pretty, big lots of people coming from the northern US and western provinces. Lots of vendors come down from your neck of the woods. We are expecting a good sized turn out. at the same time is a gun show in another room off to the side. Its at Leth. Exhibition Pavilion. This year our local antique car club is going to have a few cars on display as well.

[51hornetA]

In the past have you seen any Hudson items at the events?

[Jimalberta]

Yeah I bought a couple of spare parts, it all depends on who shows up I guess. The parts I bought were brought down from a guy in Calgary. I Invited up the Hudson guys from the Montana chapter, Stu Coleman and Dave Mansk(not sure that's spelt right) so they may show up. I hope they do. Stu always has lots of parts.

[silverone]

Jim my setup is 6 volt and that is the P6 designation which means its for 6 volt positive ground. If you convert to 12 volt you get the part # 1362 without the P6 designation. Runs like a dream on the 6 volt. I have just done the distributer for the 308 I have on the engine stand as well.

I also got the new Pertronix wires and coil. Just make sure to get the correct coil. The correct coil is the PNX 40011 1.5 Ohm coil and the wire kit is PNX 708180.

This is tried and true technology and runs excellent. I would not return to points after this. Be sure to gap your plugs to 32 thou after doing this as you can run a wider gap.

I got everything from my local Mopac dealer they have a store in Calgary phone number 403-277-0101. They will be able to order in. Cost you about 200 bucks for the lot.

What plugs are you running '51 ?

[51hornetA]

H10 gapped to 32

[silverone]

H10 gapped to 32

Do you have a secret source for these H 10's ? I can't seem to find anyone who can supply.

silverone

[51hornetA]

Yup its pretty secret I get them at my Napa store. Their number is CHA844

[junkcarfann]

Can you run a 6 volt Petronix system with an 8 volt battery?

[dwardo99]

H-10 sparkplugs seem to be common in small engines so they are likely to be found at Home Depot and such.

[silverone]

Yup its pretty secret I get them at my Napa store. Their number is CHA844


Aha !! :-) Are they marked as CHA844's then, or H10's ? The reason I ask is because when I went to NAPA some time ago and asked for H10's, the young fellow behind the counter couldn't find them in the book, so with considerable authority, announced that they must be obsolete, and looked at me like I was pretty close to that status too --- epecially when I said they were for a "Hudson" !

Once I said that, I think he dismissed me as some kind of nut, -- since he'd never heard of a (What) -- a Hudson ?? Things just kinda went downhill from there.

Ahhh - God bless the young, --- they just don't know what they're missing !

Anyway, thanks for the info '51 -- I'm gonna see if I can get the same Guy again and enlighten him on a few things about spark plugs -- and Hudsons !! :-)

silverone

[dwardo99]

I can't say if they are the same. The ones I've bought have been marked H-10s. If you look around on the internet you should be able to find spark plug interchange charts that might help. Ot you could call or email Champion. Somebody (I think on this forum) said they enjoy going to auto parts stores and asking the young clerks for a 1966 Volkswagen radiator cap. I tried and it's fun!

[51hornetA]

Oh Silverone, you asked a sullen youth a question about interchange. That was your first mistake my local Napa guy thinks I drive a Hudson Hornet motorcycle and who am I to deflate that fantasy he has. I have even gone so far as to order my parts standing at the counter with a motorcycle helmet on.

But seriously when I want to know about Napa parts I use Napaonline as they have crossed indexed their catalog and it goes back to 53 so if you type in H10 it will give you a couple of choices a Champion plug number I supplied or an Autolite equivalent. Never let them look things up always do the legwork yourself before hand. Everything I got from Napa this way has fit.

The plugs I got from them are identical to the old Champion H10's I have in my shop. Even better because they have better electrodes. Specs are almost identical and bottom line they run like a champ in my car....pun intended

[ezekiel]

Interesting thread...so many posts and I've learned a lot :D I may use these info on fixing my VW fuel pump (http://www.vdubpartsdirect.com/vw_fuelpump.html). I think somehow I can apply the ideas here :cool:

[eddynghdsn16]

TSC (Tractor Supply Company) stocks Champion H-10 spark plugs ( probably for old tractors and small engines) and Fram C-3 oil filters :)

[mars55]

FYI Champion has changed their spark plug numbering system. A H10 is now called a 844.

[Nevada Hudson]

The Champion H-10c , is the one I found. Seems to work well. Found at a Auto Parts store.

[Dave53-7C]

The Champion H-12 is still available.